Rainmaking Problem #1: Does She Talk Too Little or Does He Talk Too Much?
(This is part of my series on Rainmaking Problems. I hope you will leave a comment with your thoughts on a solution to this problem.)
I am coaching a woman whom I will call Sophie. When I asked for her boss’s assessment of her, he said that she doesn’t put herself forward enough in client meetings and especially in sales meetings. He cited a recent sales meeting they had gone on together, at which he felt compelled to do the most talking, she seemed so reserved.
Sophie says that her style differs from her boss’s. She feels it natural to let the client talk, expecting to say something when she can add real value. That her clients all adore and respect her suggests this is true. She says that she doesn’t talk much at meetings when her boss is present, because she doesn’t want to fight with him for air space. Knowing the man, I can believe this is true.
Still, I have never seen either one in a sales meeting. Her boss has a track record of selling successfully and, so far, Sophie doesn’t.
What would you recommend that Sophie do? Is this HER problem or HIS problem? How should she continue pleasing her clients while gaining the respect of her boss?
Please respond below.
(Got a problem selling professional services? Feel free to email me your problem and it may become a future “Rainmaking Problem of the Week.”)
October 8th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Interesting challenge. Clearly two people with different opinions on what is the right approach. Is there oppty to find some common ground?
Maybe focusing on what the prospect is looking for might help. Do she and he have a shared understanding of how to read people? And do they then use that to change how they might interact with the prospect?
Another thing to think about here might be the level of advice or professional chops that must be demonstrated in these sales meetings before you win. Surely this changes depending on the business they’re in and where they’re at in the sales cycle. This level might need to be adjusted in both cases - maybe more from Sophie and less from the boss. (But it’ hard to argue with success!)
Finally, should there be sales meetings that include both Sophie and her bosss, maybe there’s a tag-team approach….Sophie lays out an opinion, and the boss then builds on that by defining impact. (He puts the cherry on top of the sundae.)
October 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
This is a chicken-and-egg problem. It’s impossible to diagnose the situation while you have the two actors together. I’d recommend giving Sophie a chance to put her approach to work without her boss second-guessing her methods. Perhaps my teaming her with someone else (say, a coach).
The boss’s behavior is hurting matters. If he is so intimidating that Sophie pulls back when he’s around, that isn’t going to be helpful in customer or in internal settings. He needs some coaching to try to support and encourage, not to intimidate or take control in all situations. (Take it from someone who shares some of those tendencies.) The fact that he can sell is irrelevant to his leadership responsibilities. If he can’t help his team sell for themselves, then he’s a liability to the team.
Sophie needs the confidence to go to her boss and say, “Let me try my approach for x months. See if I bring results. And here are ground rules for customer meetings. You have to support me to the client, not take over or otherwise undercut me.” If he says no, she knows where he stands. And if he says yes, she has a chance to try for herself.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Steve and John:
Thank you both for your comments. They have given me some things to think about. I didn’t mention in the original post that we were hired to coach Sophie and a few others, not the boss. While we take issues back to the bosses who retain us to work with their people, that is beyond the scope of the contract. When it comes to coaching that hasn’t been asked for, some bosses want it and some don’t. Sophie’s boss falls in the latter group.
Not knowing this, Steve’s response describes what can be done when the boss is open to coaching. John’s is the way to go when we must address the issues largely by helping the person being coached find her own path.
I have worked with cases analagous to Sophie’s before, all of which would require somewhat different mixes of the ideas you suggest.
In an old post on Lemonade Stands, I suggest that people learning so sell be allowed go after a couple of opportunities that are too small for the firm where they can learn without harming the organization if they lose. One option is for Sophie to take John’s approach with small opportunities to show that she can, indeed, sell.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
Ford Harding
October 8th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
It looks as though it may be Sophie’s problem. Although her style is very similar to my own… being reserved, and often speaking when you can add real value. I’ve learned that you have to step outside of “being yourself” or your “comfort” zone at times, especially when you are trying to sell your product or service. I think a good level of vocality and persistance, if you will, illustrates to the client or prospective client that you “care”, or are “serious”. I think behavior in a sales meeting gives a prospective client a glimpse of how passionate or unpassionate one may be if they retained your services. Of course, Sophie’s boss may be a bit “pushy” or “overbearing” which may sometimes have resulted in his successful track record—but for the most part it works for him.
My recommendation for Sophie is to sit down and have a “heart-to-heart” conversation with her boss (as I once did). She should provide an explanation for her style and also share with him how she feels about competing for air space (in a professional manner)
Perhaps her suggestion to him would be that before a sales/client meeting, the two of them have a pre-meeting so they can discuss what each one of them should speak about—providing leverage to them both.
Being vocal and persistant is what makes great sales people. And deep down Sophie is a good sales person, and can be just as successful as her boss. She should consider finding some type of medium to continue pleasing her clients and to gain respect from her boss. Perhaps be a bit more vocal and more persistant (without being pushy). I believe if she challenge herself to do this, she will be more successful in selling and gain the respect of her boss—all without comprimising who she is.
Tiffany Murkey
October 9th, 2008 at 6:36 am
I don’t have problems speaking up. I wasn’t always this way. It is a learned behavior. My suggestion: First, she needs to tell her boss that she is going to speak up more. She needs to prepare him. Second, she needs to prepare herself for each sales meeting by reviewing and rehearsing, perhaps in a mirror, what she’ll say. Third, she needs to speak up, even when her boss is dominating the conversation. At first she may be uncomfortable, she may even blow it, but in time — a half dozen to a dozen times — she’ll feel comfortable. Eventually it will become habit and she’ll have the opportunity to sell more effectively.
October 9th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Tiffany and Guy:
It’s hugely helpful to have this type of commentary from someone who has actual experience with the problem and who has overcome it. Thank you so much. I will share these directly with Sophie.
Regards,
Ford Harding
October 9th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Given that he is her Boss, if he feels she has a problem - then she does have a problem - how to address his perception of her as having a problem or issue with participation. Do what she would do if a client was not happy and get him talking and find out what he feels is missing and how he would best feel that need would be met.
Sales and customer service are about meeting the clients needs and or expectations which are based on their perceptions. Recommend she talk with her boss and problem solve. Meet with him and say that she would like to do some brief brainstorming. The goal of the session would be to get a handle on for what steps he would advise her to take to synchronize how they work at joint client meetings in order to play to both of their strengths. The goal is to participate at a level that gives him the support he needs without stepping on his toes. Sounds like she does not have a feel for her bosses style of working - recommend they do pre brief to polish their presentations.
Sounds like has not seen her in action and is thinking if she were more active she would make more sales. She is clearly good at what she does i.e. the clients like her - but she has nothing tangible that reflects well on the bottom line which is what counts.Being liked is great - but benefitting the bottom line is best. This does two things it shows him what he has not seen which is how she interacts with clients and that she is interested in taking concrete steps to change.
October 9th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
That the boss must be treated like a client is a good reminder to all of us.
Ford
October 11th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Hi Ford - you’ve started off with a really tricky issue here.
To some degree, Sophie’s style of letting the client talk is textbook good practice (certainly for the early stages of a sales meeting) whereas her boss seems to be “breaking the rules”.
In my experience, some people - especially those with attractive personalities and strong interpersonal skills - are able to break the normal rules of selling that the rest of us have to follow. And they often struggle to see why others can’t or won’t do the same - or try but fail. Sometimes that “different strokes for different folks” discussion needs to be had with them so they don’t try to force others to copy them.
However, unless she’s really new to selling, her track record of not selling seems to indicate her style isn’t working particularly well from a sales perspective.
While I agree with your recommendation to let her “loose” with a few low risk sales situations, I also think you face a particularly tricky challenge yourself in trying to diagnose the issue without having seen Sophie in action in the real world.
One of the most difficult things I find about coaching/consulting is that my client’s self-reported behaviour in key situations is often very different from their real behaviour when observed.
So while Sophie may be reporting that she lets the client talk and speaks when she can add value (which sounds OKish) it could be that she may actually be being very passive - for example not asking insightful questions or gently steering the client towards issue areas where her firm can help.
And the views of her boss probably aren’t 100% accurate too - he probably sees things through the lens of someone who believes selling always needs to be done in the way he does it.
On the assumption that you can’t spy on one of her sales meetings through a one-way mirror; maybe what you can do to help your diagnosis and recommendations is to both ask some of the clients she has been trying to sell to for feedback, and to do some role-plays with her to see how she really is in sales situations.
That will give you a better insight into what she really could be doing differently to improve her success.
Rgds
Ian
October 11th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Ian:
You make many good points here. Some rainmakers do break all the rules. (I once ran a post on the subject). But that doesn’t mean the rest of us can.
I especially like your suggestion of getting market feedback. The market, if you listen to it, is the best coach of all.
Ford
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I wonder if a “division of labor” approach would work, where Sophie and her boss work out who will address what subjects (or ask which questions). It doesn’t seem like they’ve worked out who should talk about what. Sophie could also ask her boss to prompt her to address a topic if he feels she is too reticent by saying “I think Sophie could shed some more light on X” or “Sophie recently worked on a project that is related to Y” or some other prompting phrase that requires her to answer but does so in a positive way. They need to work out some “improv signals” as to who has the ball, if her boss wants her to speak up more they should work out a way he can indicate it that is encouraging and makes the client feel that they she is speaking because she has particular expertise or experience that’s relevant to their situation (otherwise there may be a natural inclination to want to talk to her boss).
It’s a tough one, but she might try this approach.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I read the boss’ comments to say she doesn’t talk enough. But is his objection only that she doesn’t talk enough or that she’s not saying things he thinks need to be said?
I would wonder given the difference in results (he closes, she doesn’t), if it’s content and guiding the direction of meetings that is at issue.
My mentor always adivsed me we should be great listeners, but that doen’t keep her from recognizing when it’s time to talk to make a sale.
And if she’s thinks she’s fighting the boss for air time, I agree they need to map a strategy for each meeting until they’ve got a better feel for the assets of each other’s style.