Comments on: Learning from Loss http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/ Ford Harding's Blog on Rainmaking and Business Development Sat, 31 Jul 2010 23:46:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Win Loss Analysis is more than Competitive Intelligence « Cooperative Intelligence http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18923 Win Loss Analysis is more than Competitive Intelligence « Cooperative Intelligence Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:54:38 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18923 [...] I’ve conducted win/loss interviews and analysis for years, and enjoyed reading Ford Harding’s post, “Learning from Loss,” where he shared findings from Ken Sawka of Outward Insights about what can be obtained from conducting win loss interviews.  [...] [...] I’ve conducted win/loss interviews and analysis for years, and enjoyed reading Ford Harding’s post, “Learning from Loss,” where he shared findings from Ken Sawka of Outward Insights about what can be obtained from conducting win loss interviews.  [...]

]]> By: Ford Harding http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18872 Ford Harding Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:18:27 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18872 Ellen Getting the views of the partner who had the sales meeting before debriefing with the client is a good practice. Thanks. Ford Harding Ellen

Getting the views of the partner who had the sales meeting before debriefing with the client is a good practice. Thanks.

Ford Harding

]]> By: Ellen Naylor http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18868 Ellen Naylor Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:55:23 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18868 Thanks for sharing your book. It looks great and I just bought it from our friends at Amazon. Thanks for sharing your book. It looks great and I just bought it from our friends at Amazon.

]]> By: Ellen Naylor http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18859 Ellen Naylor Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:47:01 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18859 Steve that's a great point: losing hurts. I sold for several years before getting into competitive intelligence, and I didn't go to my customers to conduct loss interviews. However, I was only to happy to conduct a post-mortem within my company and we learned a lot from that too. There are so many ways to capture competitive intelligence through sales, but we also need to be sensitive since win/loss interviews can be touchy as sales owns the customer relationship. However, if you can include sales feedback and ideas before conducting the interviews, it's the best of both worlds since the interviewer is armed with important interviewing information like the personality type of the person they'll be talking to so they can adjust their interviewing style to maximize cooperation. Steve that’s a great point: losing hurts. I sold for several years before getting into competitive intelligence, and I didn’t go to my customers to conduct loss interviews. However, I was only to happy to conduct a post-mortem within my company and we learned a lot from that too.

There are so many ways to capture competitive intelligence through sales, but we also need to be sensitive since win/loss interviews can be touchy as sales owns the customer relationship. However, if you can include sales feedback and ideas before conducting the interviews, it’s the best of both worlds since the interviewer is armed with important interviewing information like the personality type of the person they’ll be talking to so they can adjust their interviewing style to maximize cooperation.

]]> By: Ford Harding http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18858 Ford Harding Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:38:50 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18858 Steve Good point. By the way, there is a chapter in my book "Rain Making-2nd Edition" on how to conduct a debriefing to avoid this and other problems. It includes an interview form for the purpose. Ford Harding Steve

Good point. By the way, there is a chapter in my book “Rain Making-2nd Edition” on how to conduct a debriefing to avoid this and other problems. It includes an interview form for the purpose.

Ford Harding

]]> By: Steve Congdon http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18854 Steve Congdon Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:03:11 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18854 Another reason for having a pitch outsider do it: sometimes it's hard for billable professionals involved in the process to not "sell" during the conversation. Losing sometimes hurts. Feelings can get in the way of listening to what the prospective client is really saying. The decision has been made already. And depending on how the pitch went, this is still an active, working relationship with value. This is a great subject and a terrific reminder of how competitive intelligence can be used in business development. (So long as it's done in a way that would make our mothers proud.) Another reason for having a pitch outsider do it: sometimes it’s hard for billable professionals involved in the process to not “sell” during the conversation. Losing sometimes hurts. Feelings can get in the way of listening to what the prospective client is really saying. The decision has been made already. And depending on how the pitch went, this is still an active, working relationship with value.

This is a great subject and a terrific reminder of how competitive intelligence can be used in business development. (So long as it’s done in a way that would make our mothers proud.)

]]> By: Ford Harding http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18819 Ford Harding Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:39:53 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18819 Ellen: At professional firms, which is all I know about, there is often no sales group dedicated exclusively to closing the next deal. The partners who lead sales also help deliver the work. They sometimes have relationships with clients that allow them to get a debriefing when others can't. Still, I lean towards having someone not involved in the sale debrief the client for the other reasons you state. It can be someone else in the firm or an outsider, depending on the size of the problem and the budget. But a lost sale is too costly not to eek all the learning from you can. Thanks for the comment. Ford Harding Ellen:

At professional firms, which is all I know about, there is often no sales group dedicated exclusively to closing the next deal. The partners who lead sales also help deliver the work. They sometimes have relationships with clients that allow them to get a debriefing when others can’t. Still, I lean towards having someone not involved in the sale debrief the client for the other reasons you state. It can be someone else in the firm or an outsider, depending on the size of the problem and the budget. But a lost sale is too costly not to eek all the learning from you can.

Thanks for the comment.

Ford Harding

]]> By: Ellen Naylor http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18805 Ellen Naylor Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:14:51 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18805 There is a trade-off between having someone in your firm versus an outside party conduct these interviews. No one will know your business with all its innuendos like someone in your firm does. However, I find that customers are often more comfortable sharing full information to a third party, especially in losses. I also have found customer testimonials for clients from wins, which were a surprise for my customer. Ford you are right: don't have sales conduct these interviews. Not only are they biased, but this is not how you want them positioned with customers. You want them out closing the next deal! There is a trade-off between having someone in your firm versus an outside party conduct these interviews. No one will know your business with all its innuendos like someone in your firm does. However, I find that customers are often more comfortable sharing full information to a third party, especially in losses. I also have found customer testimonials for clients from wins, which were a surprise for my customer.

Ford you are right: don’t have sales conduct these interviews. Not only are they biased, but this is not how you want them positioned with customers. You want them out closing the next deal!

]]> By: Ford Harding http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18792 Ford Harding Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:14:14 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18792 Ian: Ken can comment, himself. though in my experience, the person doing the debriefing is seldom criticized by the client being debriefed. So, there is, I believe, a bias when a participant in the sale conducts the interview. Ken's approach supports your belief in the value of win reviews. Thanks for the comment. Ford Harding Ian:

Ken can comment, himself. though in my experience, the person doing the debriefing is seldom criticized by the client being debriefed. So, there is, I believe, a bias when a participant in the sale conducts the interview.

Ken’s approach supports your belief in the value of win reviews.

Thanks for the comment.

Ford Harding

]]> By: Ian Brodie http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/comment-page-1/#comment-18778 Ian Brodie Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:44:31 +0000 http://www.hardingco.com/blog/2009/02/02/learning-from-loss/#comment-18778 Really interesting to see a loss review set in the context of a wider process. I've always been a big proponent of win reviews - with the purpose of not just back-slapping, but identifying the characteristics of the sort of projects/clients your firm wins and the sort it loses. Rather than always trying to change what you are and what you offer to capture the losses, you're often better off targeting & qualifying more to focus on the sort of clients & projects where your strengths are valued and you're more likely to win. By the way - did Ken mention anything about having an "independent" partner do the loss review with the client rather than the partner who led the bid. That might remove an element of bias (although at the cost of losing the opportunity to restore the bid partner's relationship with the client through listening well and handling the review professionally). Ian Really interesting to see a loss review set in the context of a wider process.

I’ve always been a big proponent of win reviews - with the purpose of not just back-slapping, but identifying the characteristics of the sort of projects/clients your firm wins and the sort it loses. Rather than always trying to change what you are and what you offer to capture the losses, you’re often better off targeting & qualifying more to focus on the sort of clients & projects where your strengths are valued and you’re more likely to win.

By the way - did Ken mention anything about having an “independent” partner do the loss review with the client rather than the partner who led the bid. That might remove an element of bias (although at the cost of losing the opportunity to restore the bid partner’s relationship with the client through listening well and handling the review professionally).

Ian

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